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Why do Felting needles break? Do you blame your tools or is it operator error? In 3 parts

Why do Felting needles break? Do you blame your tools or is it operator error? In 3 parts

Part 2

Last post, we reviewed some of the properties of felting needles. https://feltingandfiberstudio.com/2025/03/27/why-do-felting-needles-break-do-you-blame-your-tools-or-is-it-operator-error/

The Machines

So, what does industry do with these fascinating needles?

The Felting needles are used in part of a line of machines used to create various types of non-woven/felt material. Here are a few examples of what come out the other end of the machines: automotive textiles, filtration fabrics, to sheets of felt. The needle chosen for each type of felting machine, pre-felting, felting and structuring if needed, will give you various finished products. Which needle for which job is very hush hush with only generalizations (automotive, filters, landscape fabrics, acoustics…)are given.

Let’s take a look at a sample line of machines to make felt.

2 adjacent needle boards in a prefelting macheine8) Pre-needling machine set up in parallel boards.

There are a number of different machines in a line, and the configuration will depend on the nonwoven that is being produced. As in spinning, there are machines at the front of the line that bake the bale of fiber (possibly wool), which fluffs and separates it from its compacted state in the bale. As the fiber goes through the line, the fiber will be carded, drafted, and the crosslapper will lay the web into a uniform thickness in the number of layers as required for the final product. The web drafter will make sure the web is an even thickness.  Eventually, the web will meet the pre-felting, then felting machines with their board or boards of felting needles. There may also be another machine holding structuring needles depending, again, on what is wanted as the end product.  After that, it exits and is sent to the winder to create rolls of whatever was being made.

9.1 – 9.3) Some of the machines in a production line

Depending on the machine used (Pre-needling or Main needling), the needles boards may have a different orientation with 2 adjacent needle boards (2x 4,500 needles/m) or in the main felting machine that I was reading about, 2 sets of boards working towards each other.  There are other configurations, this was just one of the sample combination lines I was looking at. For the main boards, “single or parallel uppers” were listed as having “2,000 needles/m while the Single- and multi-board operation upstroke and downstroke, tandem operation had 3,000 needles/m, 5,000 needles/m or 8,000 needles/m”. Basically that means there are a lot of needles in a board of needles. I do remember I found the speed the machines were running somewhere, but I can’t find the info at the moment. I remember it seemed very fast!

In the needle boards/beds (I have heard both, but G-B uses boards) the needles are set in using the crank (that odd little bend at the top of the needle. It is always nice to know it has a purpous not just poking my finger if I turn the needle the wrong way.) The angle of the crank will position the needle as it meets the web.  There is a tool to help get the needle in the correct orientation. If you do not get the alignment correct to the moving web the implication was less efficiency and greater numbers of broken or bending needles.

crank check tool for setting needles in a needle board10) Crank positioning tool

It is also important to get the working depth of the needle set correctly in the machine.  Since wear analyses of the needles, have shown that the first barb performs around half of the total work carried out by the needle, and that in most cases only three to five barbs are actually interacting with the web.  As hand needle felters, we may also be primarily using the first barbs as we work, but we may have to borrow the industry’s equipment to find out.

In Industry, during a job, needles are not changed all at once, but usually 1/3 at a time. During the run of a job, the needles to be regularly cleaned of fiber dust, checked for any bent or broken needles, and sprayed with an anti-corrosive oil. (Regularly checking our needles would be good practice for hand felters, too.) How long needles remain in the needle board can be measured in machine operating hours, stroke rates or production quantity.

In the boards, the needles can catch and bend or break, they will also dull (tip or barb) over time. Dulling is not usually a problem hand felters need to worry about, unless you are working into a vary needle-dulling surface (which sounds like a silly idea) or are using a fiber with extreme abrasive qualities (I wonder what that would be? Has anyone tried to felt fiberglass? I have no idea why you might want to, but that might be strong enough to destroy barbs quicker than wool.  I would also not try asbestos fiber, it would destroy your lungs and probably give you cancer. I am getting distracted (it may be getting close to time for meds again, back on topic). Stick to wool and other fluffy fibers.  We will not stab our needles nearly as many times as a needle will impale fiber in the commercial machines.  Unfortunately, even if our needle tips are unlikely to dull significantly, we still will have needles bend or break.

Remember I mentioned cycling out needle, a third at a time, in a needle board during production?  I recently saw a complaint on YouTube about the purchase of a set of needles sold in three lengths. I am sure you have seen some resellers list their needles as “Small, Medium and large” with no specified gauge. Avoid these, you may get perfectly good needles, but in three lengths of the same gauge. Or worse, as this buyer described her cheap 3 length needles as “having blunt points and the barbs were worn and shallow”. This suggests she may have received needles pulled from a needle board. If a seller doesn’t know what gauge they are selling, be suspicious. They may be cheap, but they still may not be worth the price. If you receive worn-looking barbs on your needle, they are not moving fiber as efficiently as expected, then yes, you can blame your tools and the re-seller. Used industrial needles (pulled from a needle board) will also be weaker due to the hours of wear already on the needle and will be more likely to break, especially if we forget rule #2 (Never change vector, the direction the needle goes in is the direction the needle goes out).  So far, this seems to be a limited problem, but it’s good to be aware and cautious. Although the cheap price may be very tempting, stick to reputable resellers or manufacturers.

older 3 length needles by reseller no guage listed11) Sold by three lengths but no gauges.

In this older add, above, with needles sold by 3 lengths, it looks like the two on the right might be the same gauge and the short one may be finer, but the seller only lists lengths of overall needle. We can tell from the picture that the needles should have three 3 barbs per side. If you need to be extremely frugal, and sometimes these no-gauge needles are no cheaper than ones with information, ask the seller questions. If you don’t like the answer, don’t buy them. You could wind up with something you don’t want. (Sometimes, the deal is too good to be true.)

needles sold by lenth not by gauge. another exmple of needles sold by lenth not by gauge. 12.1 – 12.2) Here is an image of needles in three sizes being sold. Lots of measurements of lengths, but no mention of gauge.

Some sellers, who are not hand needle felters, just don’t realize what we need or want to know. If they get asked often enough they may start adding more information that is helpful to us. The Doer needles (non-industry site) now has much more helpful information on it. the improvement in information is likely due to a lot of pestering by hand needle felters, and more than just me.

I have bought lots of needles from Etsy resellers, Amazon, Aliexpress and at fiber festivals.  So far, I have not run into any that seem to have warn barbs or dulled tips. I tend to buy from sellers who know what they are reselling or directly from one of the manufacturers. Being curious, I have bought a few of the various needle felting kits, which include assorted needles (some un-gauged), a working surface and other tools. So far, all the needles have looked new and unused. Some of the needles do feel a bit less flexible (likely higher carbon content?), but they still work. You just have to be more enthusiastic about adhering to rule #2.

Next, we will look at how we use felting needles.

off topic update: Second trip out after surgery, this time to the renew my drivers license and health card(Glenn was driving). i seem to have forgotten my birthday this year. dose that mean i can stay the same age as last year?

Have fun and keep felting!

Why do Felting needles break? Do you blame your tools or is it operator error? In 3 parts

Why do Felting needles break? Do you blame your tools or is it operator error? In 3 parts

Part 1

Why do felting needles break?

Do you blame your tools, or is it operator error?

I have bumped into this question a couple of times so far this year but had not been up to considering the answer. The question has two factors which we should consider. The needle itself and how it is used.

Let’s start with a review, what industrial felting needles were originally designed to do: make nonwoven fabric in industrial machines.  We can divide the needle itself into two parts: first, the needle and its intrinsic qualities and second the machines the needles go in.  Then, we will consider our use of the needles.

DIagram of a felting needle with parts listed1) Parts of a felting needle

(The diagram above should be looking quite familiar if you have read the other blogs about needles.)

Quick overview of the properties of needles:

Length:

Needles vary in length, depending on the machine they will be used with and what they are making. Needle lengths range from 2.5”,(3”, 3.5”, 4”, 4.5”) to 5”. The most common Length for us is 3”, which fits in the clover and fake-clover tool holders. So sellers who sell needles by length, small, medium and large, may be selling you the same gauge just in different lengths. We will chat again about that silliness later.

2.1-2.2) range of Gauges used by hand needle felters

Gauge:

Needles also come in different gauges. That’s the thinness or thickness of the working part of the needle. We usually work in the range of 32g to 42g, with most needle felters preferring the 38-40 range. But within the industry, the range is much larger; standard Triangle needles range from 12–46 gauge.  The higher the number the finer the needle and the more vulnerable it will be to mishandling.

Shape:

You also have various shapes of the working part of the needle. The most common shape is the triangle. There are other options such as the tri star (3 Sides), quod or cross star (4 sides) (both stars are more limited in gauges and lengths available), Twisted or Spiral needles (Higher production speeds possible and good compaction of the non-woven fabric. They are used in the automotive and filtration sectors.), and the Crown, which is a Structuring needle (one barb on each edge of the working part, closest to the point. Used in Automotive interiors and home textiles: Floor coverings)

Some we don’t tend to see;

  • Vario barb (Graduated barb size per edge, 1-3 barbs per side. The closer to the point, the smaller the barb),
  • Conical (tapering angle from the point to the end of the working part, like the Vario, the barb size decreases the closer to the tip and up to 3 barbs per side; barbs come in 3 styles. Available in 18–43 gauge)
  • GEBECON (as the previous 2 needles, tapering working part and varying barb sizes up the working part.

These three previous needles are all used in Pre-Needling machines and are popular for their resistance to bending or breaking. They are used in the manufacturing in the automotive sector, synthetic leathers, geotextiles, filter felts and any type of technical felt.

  • Teardrop working part, 4, 6 or 8 barbs on one side. This needle is described as having a gentle effect on the warp and weft threads of the base material. It is used when base materials are used; examples given were in paper machine and filtration felts or for needling furniture upholstery fabrics. 30–40 gauge, 2 barb types and 2 lengths are the regular availability.
  • EcoStar 3-sided triangular working part, most commonly 2 barbs per side. It is described as having a Lower penetration force required in felting machines.

Barb:

 

verious differnt shapes of barbs on a felting needle 4 exsamples 3) Barbs: Some of the B.G Barb styles

Needles have barbs, little notches in the working part of the needle that grab one or many fibers and moves them into the felt or ground you are working on. For most needles, the gauge of the needle will determine the size of the barb. With Courser Gauges can have bigger Barbs that can grab larger and courser fiber or more of a finer fiber with each insertion. Inversely, smaller barbs/finer gauges will only grab finer fibers since a fiber larger than the barb will not fit in it, so it cannot be moved by the barb. There are different styles of barb shapes.  When perching from a reseller, we don’t usually know which type of barb or the barb spacing we are getting.

Point:

There are also different points on felting needles. Again, they are usually not listed when you buy them from a reseller, and now, many of the manufacturers are not listing them on their packaging. We seem to be getting the standard sharp point, which was stated as the most common, but there are other options available.

feling nedle tips options we usualy have the sharp option.4) Point options from G.B,  some are commonly found, and some are not seen by us

The Point comes in more than one shape. We tend to be sold sharp, pointy tipped needles. Although they are brand new needles, as you can see, they can have a rounded tip. These points are usually associated with needles working on a woven ground, so the point does not break the fabric as it is pushing wool into the fabric. These are not needles we tend to get our hands on. The exception is a fork needle, which is now being sold to us as a felting needle. It is not, it’s a structuring needle and does not have any barbs. It is used mostly by doll makers to add hair to their newborn baby dolls.

A few years ago, there were rumors in the technical papers of new coatings to increase the flexibility of needles and allow an increase in the speed the web could pass through the line (machines).  So far, the rumor has not given us a flexible needle, but a new coating/finishing process for barbs has been introduced. It reduced the speed the barb wares, once worn, it no longer grabs the optimal amount of fiber or grabs no fiber at all. This requires the replacement of the needles in the needle board. This new needle gave much longer run times before needing replacement.  This may not be quite as impressive for hand felters but it is an interesting development in technology. I will keep hoping for the mythical flexible needle to turn up, which will likely be helpful to us, but I am not holding my breath.

Different needle manufacturers.

There are various needle-making companies. Some make the machines and the needles, others seem to only make needles for others’ machines. When I was surfing around the web trying to find technical details on needles, I would occasionally come across a snide comment about “needles made in India” on a site not in India, or “fragile needles from China” on a site selling needles not coming from China. Oddly, I never saw anyone saying anything bad about the German Groz-Breckert company (G-B) (I have some of their needles and they are nice). That said, they were difficult to contact. When both Ann and I tried years ago (there was a branch office in Canada, now gone), they wanted you to buy in boxes of 1000 needles and ignored us. There are a couple of resellers who are getting needles from them. So, if you want to, you can try them out without buying a full box.  I can buy in boxes of 500 needles from Doer, but because of the weight the shipping is sometimes as much or more than the box of needles.

The advantage of going straight to the manufacturer is that you know the needle specifications and can reorder exactly what you find most helpful.  I have shown you photos before of the ends of the needle boxes I have bought with the needle code on the end. The disadvantage is you now have 500 of one type of needle!

A couple of years ago, I was reading one of G-B’s industry newsletters (for fun) and found an article that horrified me! G-B would be dropping the full specification of their needle boxes and instead giving a customer code that would work with the customer’s inventory system. DRAT!!!! Why would you want to do that? I want to know what the needle specks are, gauge, barb type and spacing (especially how far from the tip the first barb is), length of needle, (I will admit I am not as interested in the length to first and second step down), there is even a code for the type of tip!! I know I am a bit of a nerd in wanting to know all this but barb spacing and working depth are variables that interest me.

I kept reading the article….. and they finally got to the point. The removal of the needle coding is to thwart industrial espionage by snooping at the boxes being loaded into needle board/beds for a specific job.

old and new lables on boxes of felting needles5) GB new labeling.

Oh. Ok, I can see where that is important, but I still want to know the specs for hand needle felting and I am willing to share with other felters what needle info I have! Doer is the company I have been chatting with and buying boxes of needles from. They have not gone quite so extreme as G-B, but I have noticed they have reduced the info on their boxes, too. I ordered a box of “15x18x38x3 GB2222” and got “38G Star” stuck on the label.  I took a pen and added the rest of the code.  Ok, enough ranting about the lack of info on needle boxes.

Let’s look at what the needles are made of: I can’t find a document saying how the needles are exactly made (more sneaky digging in the internet in my future!), so let’s think like a blacksmith for a moment. What is the needle made of, and has it been finished to change the metal’s properties? From numerous times of dropping a needle on the floor (really, that can’t be good for the needle or my feet) I can pick it up with my extendable magnet. So the sites saying carbon or high-carbon steel are likely correct.

The amount of carbon in steel will change the properties of the metal. More carbon makes it stiffer but also increases the fragility. Less carbon will make it more flexible but not as stiff. Carbon content is not the only thing to consider.

extendile magnet and light with needle attached 6) Needle pick-up tool (extendable handle and light by magnetic end; I found mine on sale at Princess Auto)

If you have ever had the opportunity to watch a bunch of blacksmiths work, it’s not only a highly photogenic opportunity, you also occasionally see them changing or adjusting the hardness of what they’re working on. Think of a knife or sword. The blade edge must be hard and be able to be sharpened, but the rest of the blade must be flexible enough not to break when used. So I asked Glenn.

As you work with metal, it hardens.  This can be countered by annealing, quenching and tempering. You are wanting to create a metal that is strong and, in our case, flexible enough to withstand the stresses of repeated stabbing into the web as the machine is running and the web is moving.

Annealing alters the physical and mechanical properties of metals, improving their workability. Annealing involves heating steel to a specified temperature, holding it there for the right time and then cooling it very slowly. The controlled cooling helps refine the metal’s structure and relieves internal stresses.

Tempering increases the toughness of the metal, untempered steel is very hard but is usually too brittle for most purposes. Tempering involves heating the metal to a temperature below its critical point, holding it there for a specific amount of time, and then quenching it again to preserve its condition. Generally, low temperatures will reduce brittleness while maintaining most of the hardness. Higher temperatures reduce hardness, which increases elasticity and plasticity but causes some yield and loses tensile strength.

I also spotted information on optimal needle storage:

How could this lead to breakage? Well, if you have rust developing, especially on finer gauge needles, they become increasingly fragile and are more likely to break. So, poor storage may increase breakage.

Suggested optimal needle storage:

  • Air humidity < 40 %
  • Temperature 15–25 °C (59-77 °F)

When you are buying from the manufacturer directly, they will have tested the needles to ensure quality control. Getting a rejected box of needles is not too likely, but be wary of secondary vendors who don’t know what gauge they are selling, and are a bit iffy on how needle felting works. There are a few on aliexpess and amazon, I am sure elsewhere on the web, that are a bit suspicious, which I avoid. However, the majority of needles are properly made, lightly coated in oil, and wrapped in waxed paper to reduce rusting and are ready for us to use. There are many excellent resellers of needles who are knowledgeable about what they are selling, know who they are dealing with when buying their needles and will sell you good quality needles.   If you are in a higher humidity area, even if the needles are perfect when you buy them, it is important to take added precautions to keep your needles dry and protected from rust. To reduce both the appearance of rust and the weakening of the needles, causing brakeage.  (Do not store your needles in a cellulose sponge; it attracts water and will defiantly rust your needle if you leave them in it)

cellulose spunge attracts water and will rust needles if left there for storage.7) Cellulose sponges attract moisture and will rust needles if they are stored in the sponge.

Next post, we will look at how the industry uses these needles.

Post script health update: still quite tender but starting to sleep through the 2 am meds! I am also finding I am extremely tired again and keep noticing how nice and comfortable the bed looks, which is where I am heading next.